Parents complaining about teachers using red ink because it's "too stressful."

[Mr. Salty]

I'm friends with a few teachers, so I'm not one who is ready to condemn our entire educational system as a lost cause, but it's stories like this that make me wish school administrators would find their backbones again.

Read the full story at CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/04/04/no.more.red.ap/index.html):

Red ink falling out of favor with teachers
Monday, April 4, 2005 Posted: 12:11 PM EDT (1611 GMT)
At Public School 188 in Manhattan, 25-year-old teacher Justin Kazmark grades with purple.

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Of all the things that can make a person see red, school principal Gail Karwoski was not expecting parents to get huffy about, well, seeing red.

At Daniels Farm Elementary School in Trumbull, Connecticut, Karwoski's teachers grade papers by giving examples of better answers for those students who make mistakes. But that approach meant the kids often found their work covered in red, the color that teachers long have used to grade work.

Parents objected. Red writing, they said, was "stressful." The principal said teachers were just giving constructive advice and the color of ink used to convey that message should not matter. But some parents could not let it go.

So the school put red on the blacklist. Blue and other colors are in.

[brizz]

I've seen this reported before. Fucking morons.

[Randy Miller III]

Well, why shouldn't red ink be "stressful"? It's just pointing out what should be corrected, for cryin' out loud. -ohbfrank-

[talemyn]

I actually remember jokingly giving my teachers a hard time about that in 7th/8th grade (late 80's). I think there is actually some longstanding research that went into this "belief" . . . sad to say. :(

[LilyLilyRose]

I had a professor that did this. She wrote in purple because it was less confrontational. She also made us remove our hats, gum and had us wear nametags. I felt like I was in elementary school again. I think it's stupid, over time the new color will seem just as "stressful" as red did. It seems like just a bunch of parents that are mad that their children are being corrected and not reguarded as the geniuses that they really are.

[Tom Banjo]

Reminds me of a time when I went in a Yahoo chat room for bipolar people. I had my default text color set to red, and several of them started freaking out. I was asked by a moderator to change it to a less "confrontational" color.

[agrall]

:rolleyes:

This is so ridiculous. We are babying our children so much these days... Can't have ANY negative reinforcement.

[OldDude]

Or, the kids could just work harder and get it correct. Then, they wouldn't see any red ink.

[devilshalo]

F-

:p

[Breakfast with Girls]

Well, people do instinctively associate red with alarm and anger. I mean, really, is there any reason to use it over green or, say, light blue?

[muggins]

Repost...

http://dvdtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=381608

-ohbfrank-


As devilshalo wrote:
F-




;)

[OldDude]

Well, people do instinctively associate red with alarm and anger. I mean, really, is there any reason to use it over green or, say, light blue?

Well, yeah, green and blue were reserved for "correct" check marks. Red was for the "you got it wrong, stupid" X's

[Breakfast with Girls]

Well, yeah, green and blue were reserved for "correct" check marks. Red was for the "you got it wrong, stupid" X'sI don't think I've ever had a teacher mark the correct answers, just the incorrect ones.

That makes me feel sad. :,-(

[TomOpus]

Next thing they'll do is not fail anyone because it's too stressful.

[OldDude]

I don't think I've ever had a teacher mark the correct answers, just the incorrect ones.

That makes me feel sad. :,-(

I suppose that is "efficiency." When I was in school, at least on tests, every answer was marked, either correct or incorrect. That is what the half red/half blue pencil was for.

[talemyn]

:rolleyes:

This is so ridiculous. We are babying our children so much these days... Can't have ANY negative reinforcement.Don't get me started on the school systems that ban dodgeball because it excludes the kids who get tagged out. -ohbfrank- :mad:

[mikehunt]

and then kids will think "purple means I suck" after a month or two

[Goldberg74]

I grade everything in red ink... and I LOVE IT!

[mllefoo]

If your kid wasn't so stupid and refused to study, your kid wouldn't get red marks to begin with. I really hate people. Grow a thicker skin, parents, because your kids are NOT perfect. Sorry. If they make a mistake on their paper, it will get marked down. Red is used because red is the most visible color.

Even blue ink would be difficult to see on a paper hand written in blue ink, you know?

Frankly, red ink never bothered me as a kid. It doesn't bother me now as a college student. Stressful color, indeed.

[Squirrel God]

Oh no! Red! The bad colour!

Do we know if the parents had just recently watched 'The Village'?

[OldDude]

I'm sorry to inform you this thread is incorrect, because it is a DUPLICATE.
http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=381608&highlight=teachers+purple

[DVD Polizei]

I suggest parents should stay away from the Elektra DVD, Ocean's 12, and Valentine's Day. Oh, and Christmas too.

[WiccanMuse]

If your kid wasn't so stupid and refused to study, your kid wouldn't get red marks to begin with. I really hate people. Grow a thicker skin, parents, because your kids are NOT perfect. Sorry. If they make a mistake on their paper, it will get marked down. Red is used because red is the most visible color.

Even blue ink would be difficult to see on a paper hand written in blue ink, you know?

Frankly, red ink never bothered me as a kid. It doesn't bother me now as a college student. Stressful color, indeed.

Amen. So many people are way too "touchyfeelypoliticallycorrect"... I'm waiting for the pendulum to swing back towards normalcy, where kids can feel free to drink out of hoses, eat dirt, and get lots of red marks and LEARN FROM IT. :-)

Muse

[tasha99]

This pops up now and then but is pretty old (I read some essays from ten years ago on it in a composition and rhetoric class). I think they're talking about the comments more than the marks, which would be a huge mass of red if the teacher writes a long comment at the end. I would use red for in text corrections and comments (because they show up) but regular pen for a long end of paper note.

But red isn't really any more stressful to me than any other color. It's just an eyesore for long paragraphs.

[Squirrel God]

They should mark in yellow. That'll give 'em something to moan about.

[DVD Polizei]

I just drank a can of Code Red and I totally freaked out. I am the first official victim of...Teh Rehd.

[jrobinson]

Well, people do instinctively associate red with alarm and anger. I mean, really, is there any reason to use it over green or, say, light blue?

It is more distinct.

[resinrats]

I say screw the pen, get a wide point magic marker, fire-engine red. I'd say the teacher gets to call the little dumbass up to the front of the class and berate him in front of everone but these damn hippy parents would whine about that as well.

[Squirrel God]

I'd say the teacher gets to call the little dumbass up to the front of the class and berate him in front of everone

The word is fellate.

[Mr. Salty]

It is more distinct.
Exactly. Red stands out against the blue or black ink on the paper.

I'm a copy editor and we use red ink when we proof pages. Why? Because you can't miss a mistake that has been marked in red ink.

Maybe I'll ask my boss tomorrow if we can start using a soft, purple ink because work is too stressful. And don't they make pens with scented inks? Maybe I can work some aroma therapy into the workplace, too.

[cruzness]

Don't get me started on the school systems that ban dodgeball because it excludes the kids who get tagged out. -ohbfrank- :mad:

or 'We don't keep score because everyone should be a winner'
What a load of crap. Parents lets face it some of your kids are not smart, some of your kids are bad atheletes. So we penalize the kids who excel whether it be academicly or atheleticly. Next thing you know we will hear about people wanting to get rid of F's on the grading scale because it traumatizes Little Johnny. REALLY and I just thought he should pay more attention to the books and less attention to PS2 and MTV. Parents p@ss me off. Red ink, if you paid more attention to your kids there wouldn't be so much red ink on their work.

[Tommy Ceez]

MY g/f has NEVER marked in red (6+ years) for exactly this reason.

WTF's the difference? They still get it wrong and fail.

[Breakfast with Girls]

Exactly. Red stands out against the blue or black ink on the paper.If that's the case then orange should be just as appropriate, but you don't see anyone use orange. People use red for the exact reason that some people have a problem with it.

[mllefoo]

or 'We don't keep score because everyone should be a winner'
What a load of crap. Parents lets face it some of your kids are not smart, some of your kids are bad atheletes. So we penalize the kids who excel whether it be academicly or atheleticly. Next thing you know we will hear about people wanting to get rid of F's on the grading scale because it traumatizes Little Johnny. REALLY and I just thought he should pay more attention to the books and less attention to PS2 and MTV. Parents p@ss me off. Red ink, if you paid more attention to your kids there wouldn't be so much red ink on their work.

Some of you folks should read a short story by Kurt Vonnegut titled "Harrison Bergeron".

It may ring some bells for you.

[AsmodeusVice]

Amen. So many people are way too "touchyfeelypoliticallycorrect"... I'm waiting for the pendulum to swing back towards normalcy, where kids can feel free to drink out of hoses, eat dirt, and get lots of red marks and LEARN FROM IT. :-)

No kidding. I'm so sick of frivolous lawsuits and people who can't handle normal life, so they try to change it. When are the people that are sick of PC and thin skinned people gonna fight back? I'm all for it.

I think the thinner these people's skin gets, the more sadistic my humor becomes. They just MAKE me want to piss them off. :D

[talemyn]

Some of you folks should read a short story by Kurt Vonnegut titled "Harrison Bergeron".

It may ring some bells for you.I read it in 7th grade English . . . it is my absolute favorite of his work (that I've read ;) ). :up: x 2

Edit: For anyone interested, I found an online copy of the story (it's one of his short stories) here -----> http://instruct.westvalley.edu/lafave/hb.html

[davejt1]

I once had a college professor who took a unique approach to grading - it may come in handy here.

When grading our exams, he would simply make a note of the number of right and wrong answers on a separate piece of paper.

When he was done grading the test, he simply write the total score (number of questions correct) at the top of the paper (in this case, the parents would be free to select the ink color if they so wish - don't want to upset anyone). He gave no indication of which individual items were right and which were wrong - all we got was a number.

Then, if we truly wanted to "learn from our mistakes," we could then go through the test with our notes, text book, etc. to figure out which items were graded as being right and which ones were graded as being wrong - these were mostly multiple choice and fill-in-the-blank items, so there wasn't much gray area. If you had questions about a particular item, however, you could always debate it with him (sometimes he would cave in if he thought it was an unfair question). Of course, if you didn't care either way, you could simply blow it off (and trust that our teacher graded the test correctly to begin with).

What made this exercise especially useful is that when we had our final exam, most of the questions were taken verbatim from these smaller tests, so it was always in your best interest to figure out what we did wrong.

To make a long story longer...if these parents want to truly understand the meaning of the word "stress," have them try this. Trust me, this is amazingly time consuming - especially if you have a busy life to begin with. I have to admit, though, that while it seemed cruel, I really did learn a lot by going over my tests in detail. I'm betting that most of the parents will be donating red markers by the truckload once they have to deal with this added burden over a semester or two.

[VinVega]

I think grading is stressful and should be banned in school. :D

That's really the next step here.

[Bandoman]

I once had a college professor who took a unique appraoch to grading - it may come in handy here.

When grading our exams, he would simply make a note of the number of right and wrong answers on a separate piece of paper.

When he was done grading the test, he simply write the total score (number of questions correct) at the top of the paper (in this case, the parents would be free to select the ink color if they so wish - don't want to upset anyone). He gave no indication of which individual items were right and which were wrong - all we got was a number.

Then, if we truly wanted to "learn from our mistakes," we could then go through the test with our notes, text book, etc. to figure out which items were graded as being right and which ones were graded as being wrong - these were mostly multiple choice and fill-in-the-blank items, so there wasn't much gray area. If you had questions about a particular item, however, you could always debate it with him (sometimes he would cave in if he thought it was an unfair question). Of course, if you didn't care either way, you could simply blow it off (and trust that our teacher graded the test correctly to begin with).

What made this exercise especially useful is that when we had our final exam, most of the questions were taken verbatim from these smaller tests, so it was always in your best interest to figure out what we did wrong.

To make a long story longer...if these parents want to truly understand the meaning of the word "stress," have them try this. Trust me, this is amazingly time consuming - especially if you have a busy life to begin with. I have to admit, though, that while it seemed cruel, I really did learn a lot by going over my tests in detail. I'm betting that most of the parents will be donating red markers by the truckload once they have to deal with this added burden over a semester or two.

That's great! :up:

[wendersfan]

Screw the red ink, just give the kids an electric shock every time they make a mistake. :D

[jrobinson]

If that's the case then orange should be just as appropriate, but you don't see anyone use orange. People use red for the exact reason that some people have a problem with it.

Orange is a lighter color than true red and it's not as distinct.

[sracer]

I think grading is stressful and should be banned in school. :D

That's really the next step here.
Get with the times... Outcome-based Education has been around in force for nearly 20 years in some parts of the country. There are some high schools (one in NC) that don't have alphanumeric grades.... they believe that grades are too subjective to be meaningful. (An 85 from one teacher may be easier to attain than an 85 from another). So they have something called a student portfolio of the students' writings and work.

The key premise to OBE is that the EFFORT be rewarded, not the RESULTS. If little Johnny works hard at adding 2 and 2 and gets 3, he is rewarded for the effort just the same as a student who got the correct answer, 5... err 4. ;)

It is this whole notion of making children the center... center of the class... center of the family... center of society that results in teens who are not capable of dealing with life. When these self-centered kids become teenagers, they discover that they are NOT the center of the world. (their peers have their own issues to deal with) Not being the center of attention for the first time in their lives, they can't handle it... sometimes resulting in these HS shootings.

[Brain Stew]

You guys are just as dramatic as the parents complaining about red ink. A couple of stupid parents complain and you act like the sky is falling.

[OldDude]

The key premise to OBE is that the EFFORT be rewarded, not the RESULTS. If little Johnny works hard at adding 2 and 2 and gets 3, he is rewarded for the effort just the same as a student who got the correct answer, 5... err 4. ;)

And when these kids grow up and become rocket scientists,
OBE becomes Obviously Bad Errors.

[Red Dog]

Why do many people become absolute morans the minute their child comes out of their (or mate's) womb. -ohbfrank-

[wendersfan]

Why do many people become absolute morans the minute their child comes out of their (or mate's) womb. -ohbfrank-They were morans before, but parenthood allows them to demonstrate it in new, exciting, and more public ways. :grunt:

[Marco1]

The ongoing pussification of our children. Next thing you know they will ban Dodgeball from schools and make sure every kid gets a trophy.

[Sdallnct]

Seems to me if the parents spent less time whinning about the color of ink and more time helping their kids, they would not see any red ink anyway.

[talemyn]

The ongoing pussification of our children. Next thing you know they will ban Dodgeball from schools and make sure every kid gets a trophy.It's already been done in a number of school districts across the country. :(

[davejt1]

Maybe their kids can enroll in the "Sunshine Academy" (the non-traditional school where Maeby attended - see "Arrested Development"). On her report card, she earned a crocodile in Spelling, an Elvis in Science, and a jack-in-the-box in English.

[talemyn]

It is this whole notion of making children the center... center of the class... center of the family... center of society that results in teens who are not capable of dealing with life. When these self-centered kids become teenagers, they discover that they are NOT the center of the world. (their peers have their own issues to deal with) Not being the center of attention for the first time in their lives, they can't handle it... sometimes resulting in these HS shootings.I don't disagree with you often, but I'm going to have to here. :D Kids who aren't capable of dealing with the real world are that way because they don't have people who teach them how to do it. It's not extra attention that causes the problems, it's the lack of productive attention that does. No matter what your childhood was like, the teenage years are new and different and a rocky road to travel and you have a much better chance of successfully making it through if you have someone whose been there there to help you . . . which sometimes means being told that you're wrong.

[Breakfast with Girls]

Orange is a lighter color than true red and it's not as distinct.It's not that much lighter and it doesn't have the negative connotations people naturally associate red with. I know you're all screaming "pussification! pussification!" but seriously, there's really no good reason to use red over some other color. I don't even care about what color teachers use. But it's just like when there was a thread about milk coming in bottles instead of paper cups and everybody freaked out.

[Brain Stew]

It's not that much lighter and it doesn't have the negative connotations people naturally associate red with. I know you're all screaming "pussification! pussification!" but seriously, there's really no good reason to use red over some other color. I don't even care about what color teachers use. But it's just like when there was a thread about milk coming in bottles instead of paper cups and everybody freaked out.
Agreed, completely.

[Tommy Ceez]

Can someone explain how this compares to dodgeball? There STILL WRONG! No one is insinuating that tests should not be graded.

[sracer]

I don't disagree with you often, but I'm going to have to here. :D Kids who aren't capable of dealing with the real world are that way because they don't have people who teach them how to do it.
I agree with this statement. I contend that placing kids in the center of the universe is NOT teaching them how to deal with the real world.

It's not extra attention that causes the problems, it's the lack of productive attention that does. No matter what your childhood was like, the teenage years are new and different and a rocky road to travel and you have a much better chance of successfully making it through if you have someone whose been there there to help you . . . which sometimes means being told that you're wrong.
Exactly. But when a child gets a note sent home from school, parents invariably take the child's side against the teacher, "my little johnny wouldn't do THAT!" When parents change the family dynamic such that the child has a disproportionate amount of input into family decisions, that is a recipe for disaster.
The underlying sentiment in focusing on the child is never telling the child they are wrong. Parents who place the children at the center of their family place a greater importance on the child's feelings than on the child's need to obey and being considerate of others.

As a coach of youth sports, I get a glimpse into what teachers have to deal with. There are way too many parents who place a greater importance on Johnny's ego than on following common sense rules.

[uberjoe]

Seriously, why do people keep bringing up dodgeball? It doesn't compare to grading with red ink. It doesn't even compare to other sports. You don't get to hit people with a bat in baseball. There's no dribbling off a face in basketball. Track meets don't end with flying two-legged kicks to the chest. In dodgeball, the goal is to hit someone, and it always ends up being the big kids beating up on the smaller kids. Because they can. Fuck that.

What lesson does the violent dodgeball teach that other, non-violent sports can't teach in a gym class? Certainly not sportsmanship.

[Red Dog]

Seriously, why do people keep bringing up dodgeball? It doesn't compare to grading with red ink. It doesn't even compare to other sports. You don't get to hit people with a bat in baseball. There's no dribbling off a face in basketball. Track meets don't end with flying two-legged kicks to the chest. In dodgeball, the goal is to hit someone, and it always ends up being the big kids beating up on the smaller kids. Because they can. Fuck that.

What lesson does the violent dodgeball teach that other, non-violent sports can't teach in a gym class? Certainly not sportsmanship.


How about simply the fact that dodgeball was fun and I certainly wasn't one of the bigger kids. I damn sure learned how to jump, dodge, and catch the ball better though. Good for quickening reflexes.

I think people bring up the elimination of dodgeball as another example of the PC insanity that takes place in our education system.

[Bandoman]

Maybe it was the dodgeball drills when the coach would throw wrenches at us that brought an end to that sport. :(

[uberjoe]

How about simply the fact that dodgeball was fun and I certainly wasn't one of the bigger kids. I damn sure learned how to jump, dodge, and catch the ball better though. Good for quickening reflexes.

I think people bring up the elimination of dodgeball as another example of the PC insanity that takes place in our education system.

I wasn't one of the bigger kids, either, but I was screwed with because of my dad's job, and dodgeball gave people the chance to smack me in the face. How is it "PC insanity" not to want to be hit in the face? Can't you just out run me in a race, or drive by me on a crossover? There are better ways to get in shape and quicken reflexes.

[Red Dog]

There are better ways to get in shape and quicken reflexes.


I'm sure there are, but they are not as fun. Also, we had a rule where if you hit someone in the face, you were out. Kids like to win, so that was pretty effective in stemming that problem.

[uberjoe]

I'm sure there are, but they are not as fun. Also, we had a rule where if you hit someone in the face, you were out. Kids like to win, so that was pretty effective in stemming that problem.

Well, it sure as shit hurt when they hit me in other places, too. But, I don't thnk we'll be changing each other's minds, so I'll just be happy I'm not a kid anymore, and don't have to go to gym.

Thought now that I think about, some dodging skills would be handy when I walk around my downtown Baltimore neighborhood at night.

[sracer]

I wasn't one of the bigger kids, either, but I was screwed with because of my dad's job, and dodgeball gave people the chance to smack me in the face. How is it "PC insanity" not to want to be hit in the face? Can't you just out run me in a race, or drive by me on a crossover? There are better ways to get in shape and quicken reflexes.
Mean kids will always find a way to pick on you if they are so inclined. If it isn't dodgeball, it will be taunts on the playground at recess, biting remarks while standing in line, doodles in their notebook depicting you picking your nose.

As for being hit in the face, not every ball thrown was a headshot. Dodgeball is basically, "paintball for kids". There's a reason why kids go crazy for dodgeball. And it's the same reason why older kids and adults enjoy paintball. Look at the reasons why dodgeball games are gone... you'll find few of those reasons to be "safety" related.

I'm sure there are, but they are not as fun. Also, we had a rule where if you hit someone in the face, you were out. Kids like to win, so that was pretty effective in stemming that problem.
Yep... we had a "no headshot" rule when I was a kid too. But given today's society and the cry of parents to stop the dodgeball insanity, i figured that dodgeball had turned into "Thunderdome Jr." :lol:

[mverleg1]

Based on the article, purple is supposed to be the new red. Bullshit! In my grading (college freshmen engineering students) fat red marker has become the new thin red pen. We've coddled kids to the point that they are incapable of actually learning from experience. With kids today now having the attention span of a hummingbird, if you don't point out their errors in a way that screams "YOU'RE AN IDIOT AND YOU SCREWED UP!!!", they have already moved on.

[Mr. Salty]

You guys are just as dramatic as the parents complaining about red ink. A couple of stupid parents complain and you act like the sky is falling.
I guess you didn't bother to read the original story or many of the posts in this thread.

The problem isn't that a few parents complained, it's that the school actually caved and banned teachers from using red ink in order to appease the whiny parents.

[Mr. Salty]

People use red for the exact reason that some people have a problem with it.
You can't seriously believe that the reason teachers used red ink is because they believe "people have a problem with it." As if they're sitting behind their big teachers' desks (pretty soon children will be upset the teachers have larger desks than they do) thinking how they can mentally torture little Billy and Suzy by marking their wrong answers in red ink.

[Breakfast with Girls]

You can't seriously believe that the reason teachers used red ink is because they believe "people have a problem with it." As if they're sitting behind their big teachers' desks (pretty soon children will be upset the teachers have larger desks than they do) thinking how they can mentally torture little Billy and Suzy by marking their wrong answers in red ink.I think you misunderstood my post. I mean, "people use red because we associate it with alarm, error, warning" -- to get the reader to take notice. But these are generally stressful situations to encounter. It also is associated with anger and rage, and I'd bet that has a subconscious effect, as well.

Incidentally, from the sounds of some of these posts, I wouldn't be surprised if some graders <i>did</i> use big red pens just to mentally torture students -- see mverleg1's condescending post, for example.

[Brain Stew]

I guess you didn't bother to read the original story or many of the posts in this thread.

The problem isn't that a few parents complained, it's that the school actually caved and banned teachers from using red ink in order to appease the whiny parents.
I read them, and its one school. In a district I don't live in or have children that go to it. My point was that DVDTalk loves to make mountains out of molehills and constantly say, "THEY'RE CODDLING GODDAMMIT!"

[talemyn]

Exactly. But when a child gets a note sent home from school, parents invariably take the child's side against the teacher, "my little johnny wouldn't do THAT!" When parents change the family dynamic such that the child has a disproportionate amount of input into family decisions, that is a recipe for disaster.
The underlying sentiment in focusing on the child is never telling the child they are wrong. Parents who place the children at the center of their family place a greater importance on the child's feelings than on the child's need to obey and being considerate of others.Okay, I think that you and I are just using different understandings of "the center of". In my mind, I was thinking of it as meaning, when people make raising your children a priority in their lives. This would include taking the time and energy to look into checking into a childs behavior at school rather than dismissing a note from the teacher and telling them that they are wrong when they are.

I think I took the opposite view of the phrase because, in my mind, when you refuse to tell a child that they are wrong and cater to their whims, you are really taking the "easy" way out of raising them. So, in fact, you aren't making them the center of your world, you are making yourself the center of your world. To make them the center of your world, you would have to put their true wellfare first.

As a coach of youth sports, I get a glimpse into what teachers have to deal with. There are way too many parents who place a greater importance on Johnny's ego than on following common sense rules.I'm right there with you . . . I am a youth counselor with are youth group at church. It's pretty appalling what some of the parents will let their kids get away with. :(

[talemyn]

Seriously, why do people keep bringing up dodgeball? It doesn't compare to grading with red ink. It doesn't even compare to other sports. You don't get to hit people with a bat in baseball. There's no dribbling off a face in basketball. Track meets don't end with flying two-legged kicks to the chest. In dodgeball, the goal is to hit someone, and it always ends up being the big kids beating up on the smaller kids. Because they can. Fuck that.You've obviously never played lacrosse or football. :D

What lesson does the violent dodgeball teach that other, non-violent sports can't teach in a gym class? Certainly not sportsmanship.The reason why I brought up dodgeball was that, in all the times that I've seen the idea of removing dodgeball from schools get covered in the news, the violence aspect of it is often not on the list of reasons. Almost without fail, one of the driving ponts behind it is that, in dodgeball, when you get hit, you don't get to play anymore (at least not until the next game starts). People condsidered this "damaging" because it meant that the less athletic kids didn't get to play as much and that made them feel bad about their lack of athletic skills.

-ohbfrank-

I find that sentiment very disturbing. Some people are more athletic than others . . . some are smarter than others . . . some are prettier/more ahndsome than others and in each case, one group has the advantage over the other in that area. Heaven forbid that kids should learn to deal with occasional failure and/or to recognize their personal strengths and weaknesses. :mad:

mllefoo hit the nail on the head . . . Harrison Bergeron . . . we're getting closer every day. :(

[Mr. Salty]

Incidentally, from the sounds of some of these posts, I wouldn't be surprised if some graders <i>did</i> use big red pens just to mentally torture students -- see mverleg1's condescending post, for example.
Well, if we can't spank 'em any more, we should at least get to mentally torture the little bastards!

;)

[mikehunt]

instead of bitching about pen color the parents should help the kids study and learn so that there are less marks, regardless of color, on the papers

[Cameron]

forget red ink...lets get back to...

http://www.ameshistoricalsociety.org/images/hoggatt6.jpg

[davejt1]

The reason why I brought up dodgeball was that, in all the times that I've seen the idea of removing dodgeball from schools get covered in the news, the violence aspect of it is often not on the list of reasons. Almost without fail, one of the driving ponts behind it is that, in dodgeball, when you get hit, you don't get to play anymore (at least not until the next game starts). People condsidered this "damaging" because it meant that the less athletic kids didn't get to play as much and that made them feel bad about their lack of athletic skills.

Exactly what I was going to say. Many of the arguments against dodgeball didn't center on the violent aspect of it, but rather, the fact that not everybody can win. In a sense, it ranks students from worst to best, and this supposidly had a negative impact on kids' self-esteem.

Similar to this, some schools even eliminated the process of "choosing teams," as this hurt kids' self-esteem as well (at least the kids who were picked last, that is). In addition, some schools also eliminated such activities as the rope climb, since some students could not climb the rope (and thus, be shown to be less athletic and singled out).

Yes, there are some people who blame school shootings squarely on such incidents.

A lot of schools are mandating team-based activities in gym that level the playing field and don't allow more athletic students to show off and/or less athletic students to appear weaker and perhaps subject to ridicule. This would eliminate any "individual" type activities, such as track and field - such sports were to be saved for intramurals and varsity, thereby giving kids the choice of participating in the sport instead of being required to do so (and possible embarrassing themselves) in gym class.

Of course, this is somewhat a moot point, as many schools are facing budget crunches that are forcing them to eliminate gym classes (and art classes, home ec, shop class, music, etc.) altogether. Related to this, doctors say that our kids are too fat and need more exercise. Hmmmmm - quite the vicious circle. This is all quite unfortunate, IMHO. Let the kids play.

Oh, and in terms of why dodgeball relates to red ink, it all falls under the umbrella of political correctness in schools, and the question of whether PC has gone too far.

[sracer]

forget red ink...lets get back to...

http://www.ameshistoricalsociety.org/images/hoggatt6.jpg
:lol: 5/5

[Red Dog]

forget red ink...lets get back to...

http://www.ameshistoricalsociety.org/images/hoggatt6.jpg


rotfl

[OldDude]

I think we should petition that Red Dog change his user name to Orange Dog or Purple Dog to reduce stress in the Forum

[Breakfast with Girls]

Exactly what I was going to say. Many of the arguments against dodgeball didn't center on the violent aspect of it, but rather, the fact that not everybody can win. In a sense, it ranks students from worst to best, and this supposidly had a negative impact on kids' self-esteem.But that's bullshit, since there are plenty of sports in school -- baseball, basketball, football, soccer. The only difference is that the game centers around throwing things at people as hard as you possibly can, and it often leads to groups ganging up on individuals.

I had a lot of fun playing dodgeball, but I can understand people's objections to it.

[talemyn]

But that's bullshit, since there are plenty of sports in school -- baseball, basketball, football, soccer. The only difference is that the game centers around throwing things at people as hard as you possibly can, and it often leads to groups ganging up on individuals.

I had a lot of fun playing dodgeball, but I can understand people's objections to it.Well, but in none of the games that you just listed are is a players knocked out of play for the game if they aren't good at it.

I'm not saying that agree with that as being a valid reason, but, that is the core reason that gets presented in the argument. In fact, I would understand it better if people said that they object because it's too violent.

I wouldn't agree, but would understand it better. :D